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Aug 9 09 9:07 AM
Your argument that the conspiracy crowd is elite certainly does turn to shit when your definition of elite can be proven wrong.
We've done this dance before sweet heart. You don't remember?
You should watch the video again because it clearly shows the fire fighters screaming, "The building is going to explode!" You didn't even
watch it did you?
Listen, I'm getting into this debate with you again, we've already had it before and I got the last word in. If you would like to go back and reply
to that last post in that proper thread please be my guest. You are too boring to go incircles with.
Nope, because you will do what you always do and twist your words to say you meant something else. Weasel.
Most people think religion is bullshit. Of course many also think that their own religion is exempt from this, but it hardly makes me very unique that I
believe all of them are bullshit.
Aug 9 09 9:43 PM
No, my argument is that you guys think you are an elite. Why would I think of you as an elite when I think you are a bunch of morons?
That only means you have refused to answer the questions before. Just like you do now.
Did you read my post? I just mentioned that the firemen thought something was blowing up.
They have however been contradicted by the fireman who was in charge of the operation.
Oh I'm sure the last words you got in were something like this: "I refuse to answer your questions".
Just a short list of organizations, companies and colleges that were either part of the official investigations or have since confirmed their findings.
I most definitely did not say that most people aren't religious. My point was clearly that they think all other religions than their own are bullshit.
Aug 9 09 11:23 PM
Aug 10 09 12:17 AM
Aug 10 09 12:48 AM
No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver.
Aug 10 09 3:00 AM
Aug 10 09 3:52 AM
Aug 10 09 3:57 AM
Aug 10 09 2:50 PM
Idiot. "Most people think religion is bullshit." That was your response to me saying that most people are religious. Most people do not think that
religion is bullshit. You are wrong no matter how hard you argue. Most people are religious but think that religion is bullshit?
Bible Babble - Disclaimer
Aug 10 09 4:09 PM
So you're saying that, like you, the conspiracy crowd doesn't know the definition of elite? So, the conspiracy crowd spends all their time fighting
the elitism in politics while themselves thinking they are an elite? This is a completely ridiculous assertion but even if it were true it would still have
nothing to do with being right or wrong. This is just another irrelevant distraction and personally insults that keep us from actually debating the facts.
Yes, they thought the building was going to explode because they heard explosions. Sure enough there were more explosions and the building collapsed. They
are more fit to say what was happening than you are.
Yeah, you mean the one was wasn't even there but a few blocks down the street? That's one guy out of many who disagree with the majority of fire
fighters on the scene. You don't even believe the own fire fighters, who were there, word for what happened so what's the point in bothering with you
about it? It's already been established that bombs went off at the other two towers as well.
Listen and learn:….
We.Are.Change confronts the reporter who reported WTC 7 collapsing 23 minutes before it happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzMlFFQ2oqQ
I believe I asked for proof that "engineers overwhelmingly agree that the building crashed from the falling debris and fire damage" Not that there
are a handful of organizations who don't believe the conspiracy.
And what does "from falling debris" mean? The building came down due to things falling out of it?
This was of course the first sky scrapper in history to collapse due to a fire. Strange.
Idiot. "Most people think religion is bullshit." That was your response to me saying that most people are religious. Most people do not think that
religion is bullshit. You are wrong no matter how hard you argue. Most people are religious but think that religion is bullshit? LOL.
This is how I know you are full of shit, because like you did with the fire fighter video, the Larry Silverstein quote, the Rockefeller quote is what you did
to your own quote above. You try to manipulate what's been said when it can't be done because what's been said is so clear and obvious.
Aug 10 09 6:46 PM
I'm beginning to suspect that people argue for the sake of arguing, and that the discovery of any truths about any issue is strictly an accidental,
completely unintended byproduct. image
Aug 10 09 7:03 PM
It's perfectly possible to believe one is fighting political elitism while at the same time believing to belong to another elite.
No. Being there doesn't give them special powers, doesn't make them incapable of making the wrong assumptions, and doesn't make them incapable of
reaching the wrong conclusions.
And no, it has NOT been established that bombs went off at the Twin Towers. That is simply a lie.
It seems the residue they found is from the fireproofing paint that was used on the steel.
That's all fine and dandy. Now where are the witnesses who saw the demolition experts prepare the buildings(s) for demolition?
Old story but I fail to see what is the video supposed to prove?
Find me a reputable engineering organization that supports the conspiracy theory. They simply don't exist.
I was in this case specifically talking about WTC7 which was damaged by the debris from the falling Twin Towers.
And that statement is a perfect example of the dishonesty of the conspiracy crowd. You guys deliberately forget to mention that the buildings also suffered
massive structural damage from the planes that hit. There just isn't any similar precedent to compare to.
followed by "Of course many also think that their own religion is exempt from this", meaning they think all religions except their own are
Are we back to the Silverstein quote? Last time we did this you didn't even bother to check the results of your Google search, because if you had you
would have seen that demolition experts do not use the term "pull it" when blowing up a building. They just don't. They might use it when a
building is being forced to fall in a specific direction by "pulling" it with wires, but even that use is rare. Silverstein has explained what he
meant and everyone who participated in the conversation agree about the meaning of "pull it".
Aug 10 09 7:56 PM
If that's what you believe, fine. I cannot speak for the "conspiracy crowd" but I can speak for myself and I am not an elitist of any type.
Of course but you not being there doesn't do any good either. While the fire fighters were there and you weren't I have to go with their side of the
story over some random guy on the internet. Sorry.
Yes it has been established. Not only did so many of the fire fighters hear explosion that the NY Times went back and got all the transcripts to prove it but
you can see the explosions on the video footage. You can hear the explosions as well. What more do you need?
The same steel that supposedly melted due to fire?
There are a couple different theories on how the explosives entered the building in the first place but you know full well that if it was rigged it
wasn't done in the public eye by demolition contractors. You've got a better imagination than that I'm sure.
It doesn't prove anything but it shoes that even the reporter who reported the building collapsing thinks there might even be a conspiracy. He
couldn't figure out why he was told to report on the building collapsing 23 min. before it actually does either.
I know this game. This is where I list a company and you tell me that they aren't reputable because they believe in the conspiracy. It's a no win
situation because you refuse to acknowledge anything as evidence. No thanks.
It was? 300 yards away and it damaged the building? Can you prove this?
Captain Chris Boyle
Engine 94 - 18 years
Boyle: ...on the north and east side of 7 it didn't look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a
hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn't look good.
Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the
middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we'll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him.
I never saw him again that day.
Building 7 was not hit by a plane.
Captain Obvious score again! Of course people in one religion think the other religions are wrong. Did you just figure this out or are you lying about what
you meant again?
I did check the results and found that in some cases you are right but of course that does nothing to explain my examples of them using the term "pull
it" in the context I suggested. Seems both of us are right.
The way Silverstein said it suggested that he called the shots that day which strange. Since when does the owner of a building that happens to contain
important gov't records get to tell the fire department when to pull out of or pull down a building? That's not the way it works over here.
Aug 11 09 1:22 AM
Being part of an elite does not make you an elitist. Being an elitist means you believe an elite should rule.
Which is why I argue from a rational point of view instead of an emotional one.
That you believe there were explosives does not mean it has been established.
Now this particular myth has been around since 2001. The steel did not melt. The fires were not hot enough for that, but what the fire did was to burn hot
enough so that the steel lost at least half of its structural integrity making it unable to carry the heavy load of the floors above.
When and how? Unless you can explain how such an enormous task could be done without anyone finding out, your "theory" has a huge glaring hole in
To me it sounded like guy who didn't like to admit he'd made a mistake on such an important day.
Meaning you can't list a reputable company or organization that supports your view.
Obeid, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Berkeley, of Fremont, California
Ronald H. Brookman, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC
Davis, of Novato California
John Inman, structural engineer, of London, England
A world-renowned scientist, recipient of the National Medal of Science,
America's highest honor for scientific achievement (Dr. Lynn Margulis) said:
that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial
investigation be undertaken."
Notice the huge hole in the corner? So did this guy and many of his colleagues:
Show me one example of a demolition expert that agrees with you. And remember it must not be in the case where wires are used to "pull" the falling
building in the right direction.
He came to an agreement with the Fire Chief that there was no reason to risk anymore lives trying to save what couldn't be saved. It not like he gave the
order. Anyway did you just argue he couldn't have ordered the building demolished? Doesn't that make your whole "pull it" argument rather
Aug 11 09 3:38 PM
Aug 11 09 4:26 PM
In that case, why do you believe any of the fire fighters about anything period, including the commander that you say didn't hear explosions? So I
shouldn't ask a Vietnam War vet what it is was like going to war, instead ask you because you got to see the video while the vet was too emotionally
distraught to recollect what really happened? You're insane. Don't expect anyone to believe that.
This is a perfect example of a lost argument. This guy says that the eyewitness testimony from fire fighter doesn't count because they were too
emotional! Instead trust Invunche because he watched a youtube video.
That so many fire fighters, EMT and civilians heard explosions (not to mention it's all of film) is good enough to be presented as solid evidence.
Semantics. Okay, the steel "weakened" not melted. Whatever. So the steel was fire proofed but it steel burned anyways? Right.
Listen, this theory does have holes in it.....but not as many as the official story, not even close. I'm not debating how the explosions entered
the building, I am debating that they did. After you've admitted that they did we can debate how they did it.
While I'm sure there are companies that question the official story it's also true that no company could ever possibly stay in business while openly
questioning the Federal Government about 9/11.
There are plenty of people who work for reputable companies that I can and will list but they are not allowed to attach their company to their claim or they
could be sued.
Look what happened to the Dickie Chicks when they questioned Bush, they almost got dropped from their record label.
List of reputable people or companies or organizations questioning the official story: …
Even the FBI believed that there were bombs in the building:
According to the FBI's website:
Following the massive terrorist attacks against New York and Washington, the FBI dedicated 7,000 of its 11,000 Special Agents and thousands of FBI
support personnel to the PENTTBOM investigation. "PENTTBOM" is short for Pentagon, Twin Towers Bombing.
Yeah, there were bombs remember. What do you think bombs do? They explode and make holes. There were two
buildings closer to the tower 1 that both survived and one was directly in the path in-between 1 and 7. The debris that they saw was probably from building 7
because both towers collapse on top of themselves and not outward.
How are you going to say that a hole in the building is proof of no bombs? LOL.
I don't have any examples off the top of my head.
The reason is because it doesn't matter because no fire fighters were inside building 7 which means he
could not have meant, "pull the operation". They all sat and watched building 7 burn and collapse from the same spot, they never pulled out
anywhere because they never went in.
Maybe Silverstein didn't mean pull it to mean 'blow up' but that doesn't change the fact
that his quote is still suspicious even with that point explained. Why was he ordering the fire fighters around anyways?
I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were
gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it.'
And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse.
Aug 11 09 4:53 PM
Aug 12 09 2:24 PM
Aug 12 09 3:04 PM
Aug 12 09 4:56 PM
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