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Aug 8 09 3:56 PM
Not that Alister McGrath's degree in biology gives him any more insight into the fine tuning of the universe than his theological degree does. He is an
Aug 8 09 3:57 PM
Ducky is the Russian doll, I take it?
Aug 8 09 4:11 PM
Well then unless you or Rambo have degrees in astrophysics, you should have no insight either.
Anyone who puts forth a mullet as his embraced avatar should very slow to call anyone else a fool.
Aug 8 09 4:16 PM
It's called irony. But you're excused because theists don't understand the concept.
Aug 8 09 4:22 PM
Let's compare his bio to yours and Rambo's.
A gross exageration to lump you all into the same category, but since you are an atheist I understand your tendency to twist and distort.
"Alister McGrath was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, in 1953. He grew up in Downpatrick, Co. Down, where he attended Down High School. In September 1966 he became a pupil at the Methodist College,
Belfast, majoring in pure and applied mathematics, physics and chemistry. He was elected to an open major scholarship at Wadham College, Oxford University, to study chemistry from October 1971, where his tutors included Jeremy R. Knowles and R. J. P.
Williams. He gained first class honours in chemistry in June 1975, and began research in molecular biophysics in the Oxford University Department of Biochemistry under the supervision of Professor Sir George
K. Radda, FRS, who is presently head of the Department of Physiology, Anatomy and
Genetics at Oxford University. He was elected to an E.P.A. Cephalosporin Research Studentship at Linacre
College, Oxford, for the academic year 1975-6, and to a Domus Senior Scholarship at Merton College, Oxford, for
the period 1976-8. He also spent three months as a European Molecular Biology Organization visiting fellow at the University of Utrecht, in the Netherlands.
During the years 1975-8, he carried out scientific research, leading to the publication of a number of peer-reviewed research articles, alongside studying for
the Oxford University Final Honour School of Theology. In December 1977, he was awarded an Oxford D.Phil. for his research in the natural sciences, and he
gained first class honours in Theology in June 1978. The interaction of Christian theology and the natural sciences has subsequently been a major theme of his
research work, and is best seen in the three volumes of his Scientific Theology (2001-3).
McGrath then left Oxford to work at Cambridge University, having been elected to the Naden Studentship in Divinity at St John's College, Cambridge (1978-80). He also studied at the same time for ordination in the Church of England at
Westcott House, Cambridge. In September 1980, he was ordained deacon, and began work as a curate at St Leonard's Parish Church, Wollaton, Nottingham, in the English east midlands. He was ordained
priest at Southwell Minster in September 1981. In 1983, he was appointed lecturer in Christian doctrine and
ethics at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford, and a member of the Oxford University
Faculty of Theology. McGrath spent the fall semester of 1990 as the Ezra Squire Tipple Visiting Professor of Historical Theology at the Theological School, Drew University, Madison, New Jersey. He gave the Bampton Lectures at Oxford University in 1990, in which he explored the factors which lead to the origins
of doctrinal statements in Christianity.
McGrath was elected University Research Lecturer in Theology at Oxford University in 1993, and also served concurrently as
research professor of theology at Regent College, Vancouver, from 1993-7. In 1995, he was elected Principal of
Wycliffe Hall, and in 1999 was awarded a personal chair in theology at Oxford University, with the title of "Professor of Historical Theology". He
earned an Oxford Doctorate of Divinity in 2001 for his research on historical and systematic theology. In September 2004, he resigned as Principal of Wycliffe
Hall to become the first Director of the newly-established Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics. In October 2006, he
was elected to a Senior Research Fellowship at Harris Manchester College, Oxford, where he began directing a major new
research project on natural theology, funded by the John Templeton Foundation. This project includes the organization
of a major international conference on Natural Theology to be held at Oxford University in 2008, and the giving
of the prestigious 2009 Gifford Lectures at the University of Aberdeen, and the Hulsean Lectures at the
University of Cambridge in 2009-10. He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts in 2005.
In September 2008, McGrath will take up the newly-established Chair of Theology, Ministry and Education in the Department of
Education and Professional Studies at King's College, London. He will serve as the academic
leader of the Centre for Theology, Religion and Culture, and be involved in
theological research and the professional development of clergy from a range of Christian denominations.
As a former atheist, McGrath is respectful yet critical of the movement. In recent years, he has been especially interested in
the emergence of "scientific atheism", and has researched the distinctive approach to atheist apologetics found in the writings of the Oxford
zoologist and scientific populariser Richard Dawkins. He regularly engages in debate and dialogue with leading atheists, and is presently researching the
iconic role played by Charles Darwin in atheist apologetics, and the appeal to the controversial and problematic concept of the "meme" in recent
atheist accounts of the origins of belief in God.
His main research interest at present is the area of thought traditionally known as "natural theology", which is
experiencing significant renewal and revitalization at the moment. His forthcoming book The Open Secret: A New Vision for Natural Theology (Blackwells) engages
this theme in more detail, as will his Gifford and Hulsean Lectures."
Aug 8 09 4:30 PM
Aug 8 09 6:03 PM
Aug 8 09 6:50 PM
Aug 8 09 6:54 PM
Aug 8 09 7:50 PM
Aug 8 09 10:34 PM
Oh compare away, buddy. All it shows is that McGrath has no specific education in things that relate to the fine tuning of the universe.
EDIT: and the "former atheist" line is probably bullshit.
EDIT2: if anyone wants to see Hitchens destroy McGrath if for nothing else than the comedy go here http://richarddawkins.net/article,1752,Debate-between-Christopher-Hitchens-and-Alister-McGrath,Christopher-Hitchens-Alister-McGrath
Aug 9 09 12:14 AM
Tooth Fairy Agnostic
why would the universe being chaotic disprove god? That's insane.
Has it not ever occurred to you that if a god created the universe he is powerful enough to do literally anything he wants?
If a god didn't want to be detectable you don't think he could figure out a way to fool us (as you say) stupid humans? You think we are so ignorant
while saying that we are smarted(sic) than a creator?
Silly idea. If there is a god, everything you know if false.
People like to say that evolution shows the lack of need for a god when that is completely retarded.
God couldn't possibly have used a mechanism such evolution to bring forth life?
Invunche wrote: "the fine-tuning of the universe"
And that's another bullshit argument to begin with. One that Stenger destroys in his book.
There are actually two arguments:
1. The universe that we know about is fine-tuned for the evolution of higher life forms.
2. God is responsible for that.
Some physicists are not so sure that argument #1 has been disposed of. The multiverse hypothesis + the anthropic principle may account for it -- but not
everybody is satisfied that that's as far as we'll ever be able to probe this mystery.
Aug 9 09 3:06 AM
In my opinion what it shows is that we obviously don't fully understand the relationship of vacuum energy to gravity - but this is not surprising,
without a full theory of quantum gravity.
Aug 9 09 3:45 AM
Aug 9 09 9:38 AM
Aug 9 09 11:49 AM
Adelphos Invunche: Hitchens mentions circumsion as being a cruel practice that rational, non-religious people could not have dreamed up.
Infantide and abortion have been part of the cultures of most peoples and religions, in the past and now (for religious and practical reasons). Do atheists
reject abortion as a religious anachronism of a superstitious past?
Aug 9 09 2:47 PM
Davies is full of shit. You need to read more than one person's stuff, Ducky. Davies has been roundly criticised by Jerry Coyne, Nathan Myhrvold,
Lawrence Krauss, Scott Atran, Sean Carroll, Jeremy Bernstein, PZ Myers, Lee Smolin, John Horgan, Alan Sokal, Dawkins and Stenger.
Aug 9 09 3:03 PM
Aug 9 09 3:33 PM
EDIT: and the "former atheist" line is probably bullshit
Aug 9 09 3:47 PM
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