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Invunche |
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Schools that Hamas were launching mortars from.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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Just like the Iraqis were shooting at the Americans from the same hotel room the reporters were in, eh?
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Invunche |
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Just like Hamas always does. Use their own population to score propaganda victories. It's not the first time and sadly it wont be the last.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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Oh yes, I'm sure the UN always allow Hamas to use their facilities to fire mortars from.
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Invunche |
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The UN has no say in the matter.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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Until the UN announce that their UN-run school refugee camp was taken over at gunpoint by Hamas fighters who then proceeded to set up a mortar there, I'll
assume the accusation has as much weight as the claim by US marines that the hotel room they fired at housed a sniper.
Besides, the PLO were able to fire a mortar then take it down and move somewhere else before the Israelis could get an artillery strike called in. I don't expect Hamas would stick around longer than they needed to dismantle the mortars after firing a couple of shells. In any case, the number of civilian casualties caused is out of all proportion to the military gains, which makes it a dubious legal defense even if Hamas had set up a mortar there. |
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Invunche |
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What do you mean "taken over at gun point"? It's not like there were armed UN soldiers guarding it.
And about the civilian casualties we simply don't know how many it is. Many of the reported claims come directly from Hamas.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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The reports came from aid workers at the hospitals the casualties were taken to.
I imagine that UN staff don't let mortar teams into their compounds unless they have guns pointed at them. You can't sneak a mortar base plate in under your sweater. |
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Invunche |
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Yes, I remember one of the guys reporting from the hospitals. A Norwegian doctor who claimed to be able to determine that the Israelis were deliberately
targeting civilians even though he has no way of knowing that. He happens to be a member of a far left party which continued to support Pol Pot's regime
even after his crimes were known. Proving civilians casualties only matters to him when they aren't inflicted by his political buddies. The guy is yet
another example of the strange convergence of Muslim fundamentalist and the far left.
Also, I like the idea that UN staff would try to stop Hamas soldiers. It's cute in its naivity.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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I'm sure they roll out the red carpet for them and invite them in for tea and biscuits.
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Invunche |
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Tell me you'd stop a Hamas member in the current circumstances.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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Well I'd try to until he started waving an AK or a grenade around, and it wouldn't be the first time unarmed aid workers have opposed armed terrorists.
Shooting dead UN workers is bad PR, and Hamas, as you said, are PR experts. They leave it to the IDF to shoot aid workers, protesters and reporters. At least when it comes to foreigners, anyway. |
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Invunche |
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Or they shoot aid workers and blame IDF and European left-wing terrorist shills back them up.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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The IDF shoot reporters and protesters, so why not aid workers too?
The UN is sick of the IDF shooting at them, anyway: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...d/middle_east/7818577.stm |
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Invunche |
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And Hamas will kill absolutely anyone.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Invunche |
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I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Rambo123UK |
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Well as long as Israel refuses to life its embargo on Gaza, they have no reason to accept a ceasefire, and they said that before. And Israel said already that
it would accept no ceasefire until all their military aims had been achieved, and that they would not lift the embargo until either Hamas no longer existed or
it could be guaranteed they would not use a ceasefire to rearm. Israel has a long history of ignoring UN resolutions. And ceasefires, for that matter.
And the Geneva convention and laws of war, come to that http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...d/middle_east/7819492.stm Israel 'shelled civilian shelter' Israeli tank along Israeli-Gaza border on 8/1/09 Israel's offensive in Gaza has been under way for nearly two weeks Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying. The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) called it "one of the gravest incidents" since the beginning of the offensive. The shelling at Zeitoun, a south-east suburb of Gaza City, on 5 January killed some 30 people, the report said. Israel says it has looked into the allegations and they are unfounded. Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said no Israeli soldiers had been in the area on the day the incident was supposed to have happened. The OCHA report said: "According to several testimonies, on 4 January Israeli foot soldiers evacuated approximately 110 Palestinians into a single-residence house in Zeitoun (half of whom were children) warning them to stay indoors. "Twenty-four hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing approximately 30." The UN said those who survived and were able walked 2km to the main north-south road to be transported to hospital in civilian vehicles. "Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital," the report said. 'No safe haven' Allegra Pacheco, of OCHA in Jerusalem, said they were not accusing the Israelis of a deliberate act, but said the incident needed to be investigated. She also said they were concerned at claims by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) that ambulances were only allowed access to the neighbourhood on Thursday - four days after the alleged incident. The ICRC on Thursday accused Israel of failing to fulfil its duty to help wounded civilians in Gaza. "In Gaza, there is a severe protection of civilians crisis. There is no safe haven, no safe space, for all the civilians, particularly children," Ms Pacheco told the BBC. "Since the ground operation, the number of children killed has risen by 250%." An estimated 770 Palestinians and 14 Israelis have died in nearly two weeks of Israel's air and ground offensive against the Palestinian militant group Hamas. The UN Security Council has called for an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza. |
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Rambo123UK |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...d/middle_east/7828884.stm
'More than 1,000 killed in Gaza'
Palestinian deaths in the Gaza Strip have passed 1,000, medical sources in Gaza say, as Egypt continues efforts to broker a ceasefire. Nearly a third of the dead are reported to be children and nearly 5,000 people have been injured. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said he wanted to find a durable and sustainable ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian fighters. But clashes reportedly intensified as Mr Ban began a Middle East tour. The Ministry of Health in Gaza said 1,013 people have died in the conflict which started 19 days ago. More than 300 of the dead are said to be children, 76 are women and more than 4,500 people have been injured, of whom 1,600 are children and 678 are women. Thirteen Israelis have been killed, including three civilians and one soldier from rockets fired from Gaza and nine soldiers killed in fighting in Gaza. ![]() It is impossible to independently confirm casualty figures as Israel has refused to allow international journalists to enter Gaza. Diplomatic push Egypt has been leading efforts to broker a ceasefire, that could include a new force of peacekeepers to prevent smuggling on its border with Gaza. Ban Ki-moon, speaking after talks in Cairo with President Hosni Mubarak, said he hoped the Egyptian initiative would show results as soon as possible. The UN secretary general next goes on to Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Syria.
Also on Wednesday, Hamas officials were in Cairo speaking to Egyptian negotiators. After the talks, a senior Hamas political leader told the BBC's Rushdie Aboualaf in Gaza that the Egyptian initiative had been positively received but that more time was needed to discuss it. Hamas, which controls Gaza, has said any ceasefire agreement would have to entail a halt to Israeli attacks, a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces and the opening of border crossings to end the blockade of Gaza. BBC Arab affairs analyst Magdi Abdelhadi says the gap between Israel and Hamas appears to be as wide as ever. Israel will not agree to a deal that does not guarantee an end to Hamas's smuggling of weapons across the Egyptian border and the cessation of rocket attacks into southern Israel. For its part, Hamas refuses to accept an agreement that could in effect spell the beginning of the end for its military wing. Egypt and other key Arab states can put pressure on Hamas but the US remains unwilling to press Israel to make any concessions, our correspondent says. A senior Israeli defence official, Amos Gilad, is to travel to Cairo on Thursday for talks with Egyptian negotiators, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said. 'Seeds of extremism' Israel launched its campaign against Gaza on 27 December, saying it wanted to end Palestinian rocket fire into Israel. The Israeli foreign ministry has said there is no guarantee Hamas would respect any ceasefire agreement.
Syrian president on Gaza conflict Both Hamas and Israel rejected last week's UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire. The Israeli offensive has provoked widespread international condemnation at the cost in civilian casualties. Bolivian President Evo Morales said he was cutting relations with Israel over what he called the "genocide" in Gaza. President Bashar al-Assad of Syria warned that Israel's campaign would fuel extremism and terrorism in the Arab and Muslim world. "The effect of war is more dangerous than war. It is sowing seeds of extremism around the region," Mr Assad said in an exclusive BBC interview. Israeli divisions? On Wednesday, residents spoke of heavy machine-gun fire as Israeli troops fought Hamas gunmen near Gaza City. Israeli strikes on Gaza continue Israel continued to bombard the Gaza Strip after launching 60 air strikes overnight, which officials said targeted weapons-smuggling tunnels under the border to Egypt and a cemetery in Gaza City which was claimed to be a rocket-launching site. Meanwhile, three rockets were fired from southern Lebanon towards the northern Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona, landing on open ground.
No casualties or damage were reported. Analysts say Israel may be holding back from all-out urban warfare in Gaza City, something that would cause heavy casualties on both sides and be politically risky less than a month before Israel holds elections. Israeli media has reported divisions within the government, with Defence Minister Ehud Barak said to favour a week-long ceasefire.. But Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says he wants to press on with the military campaign for however long it takes, reports say. In another development, a newly-released audiotape said to feature the voice of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has called for a holy war to stop the Israeli offensive in Gaza. The authenticity of the tape, posted on a number of Islamic militant websites, could not be independently verified. Humanitarian concerns have increased amid the fighting, although some aid is getting through to Gaza during daily three-hour lulls Israel has allowed to let in supplies. |
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Invunche |
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And Hamas is reportedly stealing the relief supplies in order to sell to the Gaza population.
Someone please repeat the lie that Hamas was democratically elected.
I have never had time for privileged people in safe countries who announce that they cannot see the difference between democracy and dictatorship. I gave
up on Amnesty International when it said that Guantanamo Bay, in which the guards killed no one, was the modern equivalent of Stalin's Gulag, through which
the secret police killed millions. - Nick Cohen
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Ichigo Kurosaki |
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The IDF just set fire to a UN aid supply compound...CNN just broke the news.
The IDF has no respect for the UN. I know from direct, personal experience. I was part of a UN Observer unit in Tyre, Lebanon in 1982. Israel invaded. A few days later, our post came under artillery attack. It was those fucking "heroic" Israelis. ![]()
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